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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 18 Aug 22 6.38am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by W12

It starts at Table 11 - there are others below it

You mean where is says:
"Older age and chronic underlying illnesses make it more likely that coincidental adverse events including those with a fatal outcome will occur, especially given the millions of people vaccinated..............
Part of our continuous analysis includes an evaluation of natural death rates over time, to determine if any specific trends or patterns are occurring that might indicate a vaccine safety concern. Based on age-stratified all-cause mortality in England and Wales taken from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) death registrations, several thousand deaths are expected to have occurred naturally, mostly in the elderly, within 7 days of the many millions of doses of vaccines administered so far.
...................
As the number of vaccine doses administered has increased, so has the number of reports with fatal outcomes following vaccination. However, this does not mean that there is a link between vaccination and the fatalities reported."

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 18 Aug 22 7.29am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

You mean where is says:
"Older age and chronic underlying illnesses make it more likely that coincidental adverse events including those with a fatal outcome will occur, especially given the millions of people vaccinated..............
Part of our continuous analysis includes an evaluation of natural death rates over time, to determine if any specific trends or patterns are occurring that might indicate a vaccine safety concern. Based on age-stratified all-cause mortality in England and Wales taken from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) death registrations, several thousand deaths are expected to have occurred naturally, mostly in the elderly, within 7 days of the many millions of doses of vaccines administered so far.
...................
As the number of vaccine doses administered has increased, so has the number of reports with fatal outcomes following vaccination. However, this does not mean that there is a link between vaccination and the fatalities reported."

an underlying illness in many cases would be unknown. Most of us probably have one or more but it’s in the word. Underlying. The vaccine is one of many catalysts which may make it known. Some people sadly have died who didn’t have this underlying condition but I would wager not that many against the other amount.

 

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W12 18 Aug 22 8.44am

Originally posted by georgenorman

You mean where is says:
"Older age and chronic underlying illnesses make it more likely that coincidental adverse events including those with a fatal outcome will occur, especially given the millions of people vaccinated..............
Part of our continuous analysis includes an evaluation of natural death rates over time, to determine if any specific trends or patterns are occurring that might indicate a vaccine safety concern. Based on age-stratified all-cause mortality in England and Wales taken from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) death registrations, several thousand deaths are expected to have occurred naturally, mostly in the elderly, within 7 days of the many millions of doses of vaccines administered so far.
...................
As the number of vaccine doses administered has increased, so has the number of reports with fatal outcomes following vaccination. However, this does not mean that there is a link between vaccination and the fatalities reported."

It’s contradictory as these deaths and reactions were recorded as being due to specific reactions to specific brands of vaccination. Why would a busy doctor bother to fill out an extensive report for a patient where these is only a vague chance of a link between the vaccination and the reaction in his or her view? Many people had to fight for their reaction to be recorded in official records despite having a severe reaction within hours of the jab.

On the other hand every person who tested positive (within 28 days of a flawed test) was recorded as a COVID death and that still remains the case.

 

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W12 18 Aug 22 8.49am

You might want to flip through here and see some US medical professionals experience of this:

[Link]

 

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W12 18 Aug 22 5.54pm

So what? People are going to spend another 6 to 12 months working out this was a scam (or willing to admit it) and then spend another two years working out net zero is a scam?

by then you will be totally dispossessed and so will your children.

 

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W12 19 Aug 22 8.16am

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 19 Aug 22 9.35am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

I'm not anti-vaccine to any extent but have been very critical of handling of pandemic, thought this an interesting piece. As to it's bias, evidence, accuracy and relativity I am not so sure but happy to see other's takes.

[Link]

Thought I'd add it's a Telegraph link for those of you similarly wary to me who are reluctant to click on any link provided on here.

Edited by Nicholas91 (19 Aug 2022 9.36am)

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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W12 19 Aug 22 9.50am

Originally posted by Nicholas91

I'm not anti-vaccine to any extent but have been very critical of handling of pandemic, thought this an interesting piece. As to it's bias, evidence, accuracy and relativity I am not so sure but happy to see other's takes.

[Link]

Thought I'd add it's a Telegraph link for those of you similarly wary to me who are reluctant to click on any link provided on here.

Edited by Nicholas91 (19 Aug 2022 9.36am)

Thanks, and here is the lead story in todays Telegraph:

Lockdown feared to be killing more than Covid

"Virus fatalities outstripped by other excess deaths as medics call figures ‘terrifying’

SARAH KNAPTON, Science Editor

The effects of lockdown may be killing more people than are currently dying of Covid, official data suggest.

An analysis by The Daily Telegraph of excess death figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) shows that about 1,000 more people than usual are dying each week from conditions other than coronavirus.

The Department of Health has asked for the figures to be examined amid concern that the deaths are linked to delays and deferment of treatment for conditions such as cancer, diabetes and heart disease. Over the past two months, the number of excess deaths not from Covid dwarfs the number linked to the virus.

But despite continued focus on the virus, with recent calls for the return of compulsory masks, the figures suggest the country is facing a silent health crisis linked to the pandemic response.

The British Heart Foundation said it was “deeply concerned” by the findings, while the Stroke Association said it had been anticipating a rise in deaths.

Dr Charles Levinson, the chief executive of Doctorcall, a private GP service, said his company was seeing “far too many” cases of undetected cancers and cardiac issues, as well as “disturbing” numbers of mental health conditions.

“Hundreds and hundreds of people dying every week – what is going on?” he asked. “Delays in seeking and receiving healthcare are no doubt the driving force. Daily Covid statistics demanded the nation’s attention, yet these terrifying figures barely get a look in. A full and urgent government investigation is required immediately.”

Figures released by the ONS on Tuesday showed that excess deaths were 14.4 per cent higher than the five-year average, equating to 1,350 more deaths than usual in the week ending Aug 5. Although 469 deaths were down to Covid, the remaining 881 have not been explained. The ONS does not break down those deaths by cause.

“Hundreds and hundreds of people dying every week – what is going on?” he asked. “Delays in seeking and receiving healthcare are no doubt the driving force. Daily Covid statistics demanded the nation’s attention, yet these terrifying figures barely get a look in. A full and urgent government investigation is required immediately.”

Figures released by the ONS on Tuesday showed that excess deaths were 14.4 per cent higher than the five-year average, equating to 1,350 more deaths than usual in the week ending Aug 5. Although 469 deaths were down to Covid, the remaining 881 have not been explained. The ONS does not break down those deaths by cause"

Of course there are many assumptions in here, not least that they have not even mentioned something else that might be causing some of these fatalities. i.e. the thing that people got injected with and has proven to have had severe adverse reactions. Many Doctors and health professionals do not want to consider this for obvious reasons.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 20 Aug 22 1.20pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Dr John Campbell (fully vaccinated) on the excess death situation.

[Link]

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 20 Aug 22 10.02pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by W12

Thanks, and here is the lead story in todays Telegraph:

Lockdown feared to be killing more than Covid

"Virus fatalities outstripped by other excess deaths as medics call figures ‘terrifying’

SARAH KNAPTON, Science Editor

The effects of lockdown may be killing more people than are currently dying of Covid, official data suggest.

An analysis by The Daily Telegraph of excess death figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) shows that about 1,000 more people than usual are dying each week from conditions other than coronavirus.

The Department of Health has asked for the figures to be examined amid concern that the deaths are linked to delays and deferment of treatment for conditions such as cancer, diabetes and heart disease. Over the past two months, the number of excess deaths not from Covid dwarfs the number linked to the virus.

But despite continued focus on the virus, with recent calls for the return of compulsory masks, the figures suggest the country is facing a silent health crisis linked to the pandemic response.

The British Heart Foundation said it was “deeply concerned” by the findings, while the Stroke Association said it had been anticipating a rise in deaths.

Dr Charles Levinson, the chief executive of Doctorcall, a private GP service, said his company was seeing “far too many” cases of undetected cancers and cardiac issues, as well as “disturbing” numbers of mental health conditions.

“Hundreds and hundreds of people dying every week – what is going on?” he asked. “Delays in seeking and receiving healthcare are no doubt the driving force. Daily Covid statistics demanded the nation’s attention, yet these terrifying figures barely get a look in. A full and urgent government investigation is required immediately.”

Figures released by the ONS on Tuesday showed that excess deaths were 14.4 per cent higher than the five-year average, equating to 1,350 more deaths than usual in the week ending Aug 5. Although 469 deaths were down to Covid, the remaining 881 have not been explained. The ONS does not break down those deaths by cause.

“Hundreds and hundreds of people dying every week – what is going on?” he asked. “Delays in seeking and receiving healthcare are no doubt the driving force. Daily Covid statistics demanded the nation’s attention, yet these terrifying figures barely get a look in. A full and urgent government investigation is required immediately.”

Figures released by the ONS on Tuesday showed that excess deaths were 14.4 per cent higher than the five-year average, equating to 1,350 more deaths than usual in the week ending Aug 5. Although 469 deaths were down to Covid, the remaining 881 have not been explained. The ONS does not break down those deaths by cause"

Of course there are many assumptions in here, not least that they have not even mentioned something else that might be causing some of these fatalities. i.e. the thing that people got injected with and has proven to have had severe adverse reactions. Many Doctors and health professionals do not want to consider this for obvious reasons.

Entirely to be expected and ought to be regarded as a success of the approach and not a failure.

There was always going to be a secondary impact from the virus caused by delays to treatment and late diagnosis. It was inevitable whatever we did. That's not the whole story and not the basis for judgement.

The real question is what the overall picture would have been if we had taken another route? If we hadn't vaccinated, or locked down, would our hospitals have been less busy, resulting in better outcomes for waiting lists and diagnosis? I very much doubt it.

On top of that, how many more would have died directly from the virus? The vaccination programme has limited severe disease and saved countless lives.

Writing cheap stories that wind up the gullible is easy and might sell newspapers, but they inform no-one.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 21 Aug 22 2.56pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by IMilburn

I recently flew from London to Thailand with Thai Airways who currently have a mandatory face mask policy. The number of people actually wearing them could be counted on the fingers of one hand, and the crew made no attempt to enforce the rule.

Different story within Thailand though, where people wear masks at all times other than when eating or drinking, even though the guidance is to wear them in crowded indoor places ....

!

Depends on the airline, destination and crew and sometimes passengers. Notice how some planes have everyone jump up to empty the overhead storage while other flights the passengers don’t have a free for all blocking people into their seats and row and do it row by row

 


COYP

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W12 21 Aug 22 3.46pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Entirely to be expected and ought to be regarded as a success of the approach and not a failure.

There was always going to be a secondary impact from the virus caused by delays to treatment and late diagnosis. It was inevitable whatever we did. That's not the whole story and not the basis for judgement.

The real question is what the overall picture would have been if we had taken another route? If we hadn't vaccinated, or locked down, would our hospitals have been less busy, resulting in better outcomes for waiting lists and diagnosis? I very much doubt it.

On top of that, how many more would have died directly from the virus? The vaccination programme has limited severe disease and saved countless lives.

Writing cheap stories that wind up the gullible is easy and might sell newspapers, but they inform no-one.

The article says “The effects of lockdown may be killing more people than are currently dying of Covid, official data suggests”. This is from a newspaper that was pushing these jabs just as hard as every other.

There is zero evidence that “The vaccination programme has limited severe disease and saved countless lives” (and it doesn’t become more true the more you repeat it - except perhaps to the gullible) and plenty of hard evidence in the form of government statistics that the exact opposite is true.

 

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